Video: How academic roles and measures of success are evolving: Interview with Prof. Zabta Khan Shinwari

What defines success in academia has stayed largely the same over the past few decades. Publications in high-impact journals, number of citations, recognition through prestigious grants or awards—all of these are still deeply valued. But have academic roles and progression kept pace with changing times and new challenges? What does it take to be a good—and not just successful—researcher? How can researchers have a fulfilling, impactful, and ethical career? And how can research integrity be woven into the fabric of research culture such that the way research performance is measured promotes ethical conduct?

These are some big questions for the academic community worldwide.

In this conversation with Prof. Zabta Khan Shinwari, I ask him to share his views by reflecting on his own journey as an academic. Prof. Shinwari is a distinguished plant biotechnologist and UNESCO laureate recognized for his work on promoting research ethics. He is currently Chair, Biotechnology Department, Quaid-i-Azam University, Islamabad, and in the past, served as Secretary-General of Pakistan Academy of Sciences.

This is the first of a three-part interview series. In this segment, Prof. Shinwari talks about what an aspiring researcher needs to know about the career milestones to aim for, given the shifting priorities for research and the focus on research impact.

[VIDEO TRANSCRIPT]

Mriganka: Hello and welcome. A career in academia can be highly rewarding, but often those who want to follow this path are unsure how to navigate some of the challenges that are unique to a research career and what they need to do to progress in a career like this. My name is Mriganka Awati and I work as a Senior Writer at Editage Insights.

In this interview, I hope to get perspectives on some of the topics related to academic career progression from Professor Zabta Khan Shinwari. Professor Shinwari serves as Chair of the Biotechnology Department at the Quaid-i-Azam University in Islamabad, Pakistan, and he has had a highly distinguished scientific career. He earned his doctoral degree in molecular systematics at Kyoto University, and much of his scientific work has been in the field of modern plant biotechnology.

In the past, he served as the Secretary-General of the Pakistan Academy of Sciences, and in 2015, he was awarded the UNESCO Avicenna Prize for Ethics in Science for his extensive work in developing educational programs on research ethics for graduate students. Professor Shinwari, it’s a privilege to have you here for this interview.

Prof. Shinwari: Thank you, Mriganka, and thanks for the nice introduction. I’m really privileged and pleasure to talk to you.

Mriganka: So, maybe we can start with you talking a little bit about your own career progression, and then we’ll move on to other topics.

Prof. Shinwari: I was born, what we call it, the tribal belt between Afghanistan and Pakistan. The Shinwari tribe lives there. I was born in a family, very poor family. My father had no relatives…father, mother, sister, brother…very briefly. So, you can imagine what kind of environment was there.

Beside whatever I did in education, I had a love of…because I was poor, I can imagine how poor lives in mountains in biodiversity-rich area. So, I had worked for them for their ethics, intellectual property rights, indigenous knowledge and all that. Basically, I was a botanist initially, later on went to the molecular biology side, biotechnology side.

As you said, I was Secretary-General of Pakistan Academy. I’m the vice president of Islamic World Academy of Sciences. I remain co-chair of the COMEST, which is World Commission for Ethics of Scientific Knowledge and Technology of UNESCO—still I’m member of that.

Those who are from, you know, underprivileged, marginalized communities. It’s a lesson for them, that if I could achieve all this, they can achieve all this, because they may be better than me.

Mriganka: So, have you seen any changes from when you were a doctoral student to now in terms of, you know, how academic success is defined and perceived?

Prof. Shinwari: Coming to the scientific career, I got my PhD in the last century. It was 1994 when I got my PhD. And then post that, I was teaching abroad also. And so…so now, you know, we did something very good. And I will again take something which is related to this. The past 300 years, science had progressed enormously, like GDP has grown, money has come, things are, you know, we are talking to each other, living in two different countries, far away from each other, but we…we can speak to each other. This is the progress.

Yet, we also should realize that every 4 seconds, one person die of hunger…doesn’t have enough food to eat. And because of that, he dies or she dies or children, you know, and pregnant women, etc. Then what kind of science is this? Why this happens is that in the past, and this is not only in the developing countries like India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, etc., it is globally, now thinking that we progressed very, very quickly, and the focus was on the number of publication, number of citations, in scientific terms, to progress, to make your name, fame—like I publish close to 500 impact-factor publications now.

So, people in my country knows me, globally, who is he. But now, with all this, what has happened? Did we…really did something? What we call it SDGs—sustainable development goals—that we will eliminate poverty, we will have no hunger, we will have this and that...all those 17 [SDGs]? Not truly, we didn’t, whether it was MDG or SDG. So, why is it?

Now, we are realizing that measuring something...a scientist or a researcher career in terms of publications, citations, H-index is not enough. In the present—last three or four years—now, people are thinking to more what we call it a nuanced approach in English. And that nuanced approach is measuring success by taking into account other factors, like, if you have a publication, what is the quality of publication?...number one.

Number two, what is its impact—not impact factor—impact on the society? Whether you are a social scientist, whether you are a natural scientist…whoever…what is this impact for the humanity…for the, you know, life on earth as such? Third, did you do something that you did...it’s not a selfish that you publish your lab's five, six, seven authors...that’s it? Did you collaborated with other organization, institution, whether within the country or outside the country? That carries more weight if you do interdisciplinary…you know, you involve social scientists, you…you work for this…what’s your…your contribution to the service of society?

So, now, the change that is coming up is, your work and the impact for the humanity or—let’s make it a little more broader—for the ecosystem or the biodiversity of the living organisms. So, that is the difference in my career, in my lifetime…when I was young, when I was not yet even a PhD, I was thinking…Oh, my first paper! Oh, how many papers—as a first author, second author, corresponding author. And then oh, citations! Oh, who is going to…number of citation that my paper should have...my paper should be cited 1000 times! But now, we the seniors, when I got gray hair, and I speak internationally, the shift has changed. And the shift is—more impact, more collaboration, interdisciplinarity, and impact on the society.

Mriganka: In terms of career progression, then, what do you think has changed in terms of what a typical research career looks like from start to end? Are you seeing any change in terms of, you know, how researchers themselves see what the next step for them is?

Prof. Shinwari: Let me take it that other the other way round also, that as a scientist, if you are a young scientist, if you want to make something ideal, somebody as a mentor, as a wish, that you want to be like that man, what kind of skills? Let’s think in that way. What kind of skills you really need to be expert in? For example, let me take it to the other…like earlier, in general, people would classify things like technical, analytical, critical thinking, and communication skills, like the skills they want.

If you are an early career scientist…you start your career…what do you need, what kind of skills you need? You have to have strong foundation in your field of study...whatever you are. Ability to work independently. You are learning, you are early career…you don’t need to…you are a new PhD student, your professor is no more there, you have to…nobody is having your finger and take you somewhere. So, that is that you have…you have to work…ability to work independently.

You should be having clear communication skills—how to communicate both written and oral—because you may be publishing, you may be speaking in the conferences. And then, you should have experience in data analysis and interpretation. And if you are a good human, so you should have strong work ethics and motivation. And then, publication in peer-reviewed journal. So, this is the early career side.

Then, it comes to middle career. And for that, they have to learn to demonstrate leadership and project-management skill. Now, they may be having a small project. Nobody…you know…a big professor will give them something. They have to write the projects. They should have already some publications established in the mid-career in some high–impact factor journal—that is requirement now.

Then, you should have some new research directions and method, you should…in your own field, like I said, I was a botanist and converted into biotechnology, etc. And then, you should have ability to get funding yourself, because in the…even in America, your professor, your senior will say “Earn money. Go and find some project somewhere.” And in India, Pakistan, everywhere else, it’s the same. Write projects. Get from the donor agencies.

So that’s another ability. And then, you should learn how to collaborate with other people. Now, this is middle career. You should be finding friends in other institutes in other countries so that you go out a bit more. And finally, you should have some impact on the society now in the middle career…that you should do something that people should be knowing.

And finally, for the senior researcher, like me, who is just going outdoor…may die someday. So, that person, at the peak of the career, should have a reputation in the field. People should be knowing them across the border and high–impact factor publications, of course—as I said, enough number—and some patents so that you have something that is being used by the society and you earn some money not only for yourself—for your lab, for your country also.

Leadership of the professional societies and organization. So that you…people will knowing, you’ll get funding, you have collaboration, and you have demonstrate…then, you be a mentor. You should have some followers at this age. If I die and nobody…everybody says, “Thank God, gone! He was an angry man all the time, he was…,” you know…you should have joke, fun, and you should have…so that people love to talk to you. People love to come to you and request you that they want to host you for dinner and all, so, you be a mentor and you have a lot of mentees that you leave behind, some good mentees.

And finally, a broader impact on the society, as a good human, as a good…if you were a scientist, you should have left something on this society.

Finally, that this should become a combination of technical experts, communication, collaboration, and innovation. This these are the four words that will somehow take you as a career path that you communicate.

I will talk a little bit about social media. We are still confused whether it’s a curse or it’s a blessing. Because curse in a way that the false news would move too fast. [Speaking in Urdu]  As a common Urdu saying goes…”When it’s the time for truth to surface, falsehood seems to have swept across entire nations.” So, you know, that’s a problem because [In Urdu] someone hears something and spreads it all around. They don’t, you know, clarify things and which is…as you as a scientist have the responsibility to have a clearer picture for the humanity.

So, that too is the responsibility of the specialist of the field that they interact with. [In Urdu] Your job does not just involve you sitting in your lab and do science and publish and all this. No. Your job is also to have the correct story for the people, so that the facts…story…you make the social media as a blessing rather than as a curse.

In the second part of the interview, Prof. Shinwari talks about approaches to nurturing a research culture that promotes and rewards research and publication integrity. In the third and final part, he talks about what he believes will be important factors that will shape research careers in the future.